Comments on One Angry Daughter: The Anatomy of an Apology, The Gift of Forgiveness...

Wow, another great article OAD! Seriously, let me ...

2009-12-09T13:20:01.012-08:00

Wow, another great article OAD! Seriously, let me know when your book comes out, I want to be one of the first in line! You have talent lady!

This is one of your BEST articles and very timely too. My DH and I are trying to teach our daughter how to give a true apology that has meaning, purpose, insight, understanding, and most importantly healing. We want her to have the delicate balance between turning the other cheek and becoming a doormat. We too hate the empty "I'm sorry" and the "It's okay" response. I like how the form apology you stated is sweet and simple. After the offender has given the restitution/retribution, a simple I forgive you, don't do it again shows what you expect from the offender, right? What do you think?

I believe if someone has true remorse and gives restitution/retribution, s/he wont hurt you in that same way over and over again. I believe that after the second time the person hurts you in the same way, and goes through the same apology as stated before the reply should be, when I forgave you before you said you wouldn't do X again, because you understood how you hurt me; however, you did choose to do X again, so either your apology was a lie before, or you just don't care enough about me to stop doing X. My question is how would you handle repeated offenses? Where is that line between turning the other cheek, because none of us are perfect and becoming a doormat that doesn't know her/his own worth?

One last thought, does holding back your forgiveness necessarily mean that you are holding onto bitterness? I know for some people it can (as another writer mentioned), but for me and my MN egg donor she has not asked forgiveness, thus I can not give her something that she has not asked for. Does that leave me bitter? It has left me hurt that she has no conscious, no remorse, and no desire to change. It hurts even more now that I am a Mom myself to a beautiful d who I would lay down my life for and my own egg donor can't even hold back her evil tongue! Am I bitter? No I don't believe I am. I do not wish harm towards her and next to my DD & DH I probably pray more for her than anyone else I know. I have gone NC w/her this year and haven't heard anything since the official NC letter which made things real clear. However, now that the holidays are here the MN egg donor sends a package to my DD. I am not going to respond because that would break NC and that would not be a good thing. A family member asked, are you going to let your D keep the gifts? If my answer is no, then I am perceived as holding onto bitterness. OAD what have you and your h decided to do if your FOO whom you are in NC with send a gift to your child?
Again great article!

Anonymous- Thank you so much for the "Must y...

2009-12-03T07:41:33.262-08:00

Anonymous-

Thank you so much for the "Must you forgive?" article. This article is the point my blog entry was clumsily trying to get to. I'm going to add it to my resource list at the right of my page

Hi, came across your post from a Google search. Y...

2009-12-02T19:41:09.681-08:00

Hi, came across your post from a Google search. You make excellent points.

I would like to say that sometimes, though, it's ok to NOT forgive. Forgiveness is a choice, not an obligation. See this article: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199907/must-you-forgive

I've bookmarked this site and will be back to read more. My father was an enabler to my N mother (an alcoholic) and I'm currently trying to maintain NC with a borderline ex-boyfriend.

Thank you for writing this blog.

I found your blog interesting and informative as I...

2009-11-25T07:04:36.607-08:00

I found your blog interesting and informative as I have been struggling with a hysterical NDIL that picked up the phone one day and blasted me with very hurtful false accusations that began with; "How could you..." and "What right did you have...." and then "How dare you..." along with others. Then I got the "If" apology that went like this; "If I offended you while I was expressing myself I am truly sorry. I must let your son fight his own battles from now on." No acceptance for the false accusations themselves and the implication that we were always "battling" with our son. She began punishing us by withholding our grandchildren from us and now insists that "we" get counselling before we can have anything to do with our son or grandchildren. We haven't apologized for anything because the accusations were a product of a very vivid and paranoid individual that truly needs help. Unfortunately, we have "stepped aside" because the pain of the circumstances for the last 3 years has been too unbearable.

@Facing Forward - its like their apologizing (when...

2009-11-15T16:32:58.169-08:00

@Facing Forward - its like their apologizing (when it happens) is like the martyr-filled event and feels less than sincere. Its almost like they make us feel sorry for being offended at their out of line behavior.

@Roma - I absolutely agree with you that there has to be a point where we let go and are not resentful or bitter anymore. It also means changing the relationship so it is not hurtful any longer - or like you said, not condoning the behavior.

All of these comments are great! Keep them coming. I think this entry will be a work in progress for me for a while.

Another point on forgiveness. I listen to Louise ...

2009-11-14T12:43:09.174-08:00

Another point on forgiveness. I listen to Louise Hay. Her definition of forgiveness is it has nothing to do with the person who wronged you. The act of forgiveness takes place in your own mind. It is about setting yourself free from the pain they have caused you. A very beautiful thing I hope to achieve someday. Forgiveness means letting go and no longer being resentful. I like this definition of forgiveness b/c it means not having to condone the wrongdoers behavior or even having contact with them. I really hope I can do that someday. I spent 30 years with her N so I think it will take me some time to get there.

All so true!!! I grew up with the zero apology or ...

2009-11-14T06:56:42.553-08:00

All so true!!!
I grew up with the zero apology or the I'm
sorry, 'but' you x,y,z. Also the I'm sorry offered with a laugh and smirk (so sincere!!) in their N 'gotcha' way.
Or the 'you should be apologizing' approach they take.
(always leaving me with the question WTF?!)

I love 'Love Story'!! Classic movie--a favorite:)
But I say love IS saying you are sorry.
We do hurt one another in life, but true apologies
are very healing and loving.

@Stan - thanks for this comment and the bookmark! ...

2009-11-13T16:51:26.406-08:00

@Stan - thanks for this comment and the bookmark!
You point out something my commentary is lacking - what to do when the one who has hurt us never apologizes – sincerely or otherwise. That's really the journey I'm on. My opinion is that acceptance for the other person's lack of ability to feel remorse is the keys to coming to terms with the past: acceptance that the other person will not change, they are who they are and that the relationship cannot continue in the same manner.

I agree - bitterness is definitely not a state to stay in for too long. There was a recent commentary about PTES - Posttraumatic Embitterment Disorder (http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2009/11/08/when-does-bitterness-become-a-disorder/) - first I heard of the topic. Made me think a lot about how to move on before it becomes a way of being…

@Roma - I agree, the apology is the starting point for moving forward (if we decide to go that direction). That's the beautiful thing. They can apologize and we get to choose if 1) we forgive them and 2) if we are ready to resume the relationship. This is another point I'm lacking - forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean moving forward with the relationship.

@Maeve - I've heard many an "I'm sorry, but..." UGH! That statement is blame shifting.

In most situations, neither party is 100% right. In that case, the apology needs to be a collaborative effort and not a finger pointing game. Impossible with an N.

@Barbara - great information as always! Thank you for the link!

@schmadrian - I'm going with Freudian slip and not the fact I need to utilize a thesaurus before using big words :) As written, I think an N would agree with my opinion of a proper apology!

Better go fix it now! Thank you!

Another great post. However... I was rather st...

2009-11-13T13:05:44.843-08:00

Another great post.

However...

I was rather struck by the Freudian slip-esque use of the word 'retribution'.

Restitution, reparation, atonement, promise of reformation, maybe?

According to Perfect Apology the key steps in any ...

2009-11-13T06:14:12.277-08:00

According to Perfect Apology the key steps in any good apology are:

1. a detailed account of the offense
2. acknowledging the hurt caused
3. taking personal responsibility
4. recognizing one’s role
5. stating one’s regret
6. asking for forgiveness
7. promising that it won’t happen again
8. offering restitution

Source: http://victimofcon07.wordpress.com/

Unfortunately - with abusive toxic families - this will never happen

My dad specializes in the "I'm sorry but ...

2009-11-12T13:24:54.621-08:00

My dad specializes in the "I'm sorry but ... [fill in the blank with reason why it really was all my fault and he is not to blame.]" Neither of my parents truly apologize for anything, and I think it would make a world of difference if either one of them ever did. So I make a real point of apologizing properly (mostly to my daughter, but to other people too): I'm sorry for x, I realize I should have done y and my actions/words were inappropriate and hurtful. You have every right to be angry at me. I won't do it again.

At least that way I got somehing out of my parents' behaviour.

Good topic. I have been no contact with my FOO fo...

2009-11-12T13:02:07.247-08:00

Good topic. I have been no contact with my FOO for 2 years and have not even gotten an apology. I have clearly stated to my NM my feelings. She tells me I need to move on "forgive and forget" not live in the past. I have heard them all but never an apology. But an apology would just be the beginning. I don't think i could get a real apology from her. If I were to get one it would be a ploy to get back in my life.

My wife sent me the link to this blog post, and I ...

2009-11-12T12:12:38.521-08:00

My wife sent me the link to this blog post, and I have to say that this is a well-thought-out treatment of something that can be an issue in any kind of relationship.

At present, an old teacher of is writing a book about avoiding victimization, including the idea that forgiveness is not required to be granted before the abused is safe (and, hopefully, the abuser is penitent).

That said, I think that there are real benefits to forgiving someone who *hasn't* changed, provided the abused is safe. I watched as a lady very dear to me held on to the bitterness of her failed marriage for over sixteen years, even though she had already escaped the abusive situation. She's finally letting go, thankfully--and I can imagine the depth of her hurt--and she seems considerably happier and more at peace with herself.

Anyway, I'm glad my wife pointed me to this blog entry. I've bookmarked it(I hope you don't mind) as a good reference, and have already pointed it out to a friend of mine.

Thanks again. :)